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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:32 pm
by Anuj Dhawan
Okay, experiment with SPACE=(0,(0)), as you last said about it and see what are the primary and secondary allocation for data set.

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:11 pm
by William Collins
:-)

I'd really not "experiment" in a Storage Class like that without checking it's OK first.

OK, it's not Production (I hope) but it would be possible to "bring down" something "big" because your dataset managed to "split" an area of contiguous space that just happened to be needed.

One of the points of a Storage Class is to use it for the task it has been established for, and not for anything else.

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:58 pm
by diwz
:-) Yeah correct. I am not using the sort work storage class. I was looking into some of the datasets in test, dev & production LPARs to find out the attributes of it. While checking every dataset that came across, I observed the Data class is NONE.

Quickly created a dataset with IEFBR14 without SPACE parameter and ended up with JCL error saying that SPACE parameter is missing. That's why want to check with you and confirm that Data class of SMS at this z/OS is not define and every JCL should require a SPACE parameter to create a dataset.

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:05 pm
by diwz
Anuj, I checked, after that, both primary and secondary allocation is showing zero. But I am able to edit and inserted couple of records to the dataset. Is this strange that I am able to edit and add records to it even thought there is no primary & secondary allocation?.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:53 am
by DikDude
Suggest you look at what is actually allocated after some records have been edited/added.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:08 am
by NicC
I've never heard of z/OS throwing an error! Do I have to duck? When we get errors (under z/OS) they are usually displayed or written but NEVER thrown.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:42 am
by DikDude
If an Error is thrown, is a Warning tossed?

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:08 am
by diwz
Dik, I added the rows but didnot save the dataset my bad.

When I saved the dataset , system is issuing space abend '0D37'.
Though I provide SPACE=(0,(0)) & create dataset. The dataset cannot be used for editing.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:10 am
by diwz
[quote="NicC"]I've never heard of z/OS throwing an error! Do I have to duck? When we get errors (under z/OS) they are usually displayed or written but NEVER thrown.[/quote]

With respect to ABENDS, throwing, displaying, showing meant the same.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:21 am
by NicC
With respect to ABENDS, throwing, displaying, showing meant the same.
No, "throwing" on the mainframe has absolutely no meaning whatsoever. It is PC/Unix jargon specifically for what I, incorrectly, call 'curly-whirly' languages e.g. C, C++ Java etc. Look in the manuals and you will sees errors, and warnings (Dik!) are issued or displayed. They are NEVER thrown. Get your terminology correct. Some terms mean different things on different platforms. Use mainframe terminology when referring to mainframe subjects, Unix when referring to Unix and PC when referring to PC etc etc.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:07 pm
by diwz
[quote="NicC"][quote]With respect to ABENDS, throwing, displaying, showing meant the same.[/quote]
No, "throwing" on the mainframe has absolutely no meaning whatsoever. It is PC/Unix jargon specifically for what I, incorrectly, call 'curly-whirly' languages e.g. C, C++ Java etc. Look in the manuals and you will sees errors, and warnings (Dik!) are issued or displayed. They are NEVER thrown. Get your terminology correct. Some terms mean different things on different platforms. Use mainframe terminology when referring to mainframe subjects, Unix when referring to Unix and PC when referring to PC etc etc.[/quote]

Throwing is not a terminology. I used this to convey the message that I wanted to communicate. If others understood my issue that is fine. Moreever it is important that the reader should understand in what context the message is being written in a mainframe forum. Please don't start a thread on these lines, it will dilute the intentions of this forum.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:13 pm
by Anuj Dhawan
William Collins wrote:I'd really not "experiment" in a Storage Class like that without checking it's OK first.
I hope, it was not menat for me...:)

If yes, actually I was replying this post from diwz
diwz wrote:SPACE parameter is a must while allocating the dataset. If you don't know how much space then you have to provide SPACE=(0,(0)). LRECL and RECFM is a must though you can provide BLKSIZE as 0.
. I'm not reached to "Storage Class" post yet.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:18 pm
by William Collins
diwz,

You are arguing against yourself.

"Throwing" is definitely terminology. I don't even know what is specific about it, if anything, beyond saying "an error has occurred". It is not "Mainframe" terminology. So more than best to steer clear of it when describing mainframe problems.

You will annoy those most likely to answer your questions if you continue use the term. It's up to you.

The point about "terminology" is the specifics of what it means in a specific situation. Applying a term which may, or may not, mean a similar thing somewhere else can easily lead to confusion. Confusion is our wasted time. So why'd we bother?

If you don't know the mainframe terminology, it is much better to just use plain English to describe whatever needs describing. This includes if you "think" you know the terminology but aren't sure, or if you've heard a bit of "terminlogy" and you think it makes you sound cool and experienced using it, but you have no idea.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:33 pm
by Anuj Dhawan
diwz wrote:When I saved the dataset , system is issuing space abend '0D37'.
Though I provide SPACE=(0,(0)) & create dataset. The dataset cannot be used for editing.
The SPACE=(0,(0) parameter means that this file will just be created as a VTOC entry, it will not use up disk space, so the phenomenon you are observing is not wrong.

The question might be, why would one need it? One example can be GDG DSCB model; which is an obsolete thing these days anyways.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:40 pm
by diwz
I don't want to annoy anyone in this forum. That is not my intent though.
Mainframe forum can interpret in its own terms. Okay thats different way of setting the mindset. Nothing makes me cool. I intention is to make the readers to understand my issues in a simpler terms. If this forum readers want in a specific way , I can adapt to it. Shall we close this issue for good?. I don't want to loose my interest in this forum.